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.docPresenter: An inversely proportional connection may be observed in this situation. Just pay your attention: Napoleon was a bald, shabby, short man. One could not look at Stalin without disgust: also an example of a thin, short creature. And Tamerlan was lame. Each of them achieved a lot, went down in history as a great politician, killed many people… And women are always opposed to men, because women are peace-loving, do not like wars, and a war is a means which helps to assume power and carry on politics. So what in your opinion attracts a Ukrainian woman to be a great politician?
Melikhova: I will speak Russian… The question is: What are you short of? May be something you lack. Napoleon, for instance, was short of his height, so of a self-expression, he wanted to extol himself. Some people want to immortalize themselves. And one would think: what does a woman need? I have probably never divided: this is a man and this is a woman. If you have strength of character, if you have your favourite job and you perform it perfectly - then the life itself promotes you (helps to do it). I may give my own experience as an example. If I were elected and were a deputy today, then what would I need? And if to say…
Preseneter: And, sorry, what is your occupation?
Melikhova: I have three educations. And technocracy was in fashion, that was my first education - mechanical engineer.
Presenter: But there was a primary motivation when you for the first time were working in the small parliament. And in that moment motivation appeared. So this motivation…
Tetiana Melikhova: Well, let me share the secrets of my own success, or rather my development as a politician. When I just took my job at the enterprise I used to be very active and undertake a lot of tasks. And I would fulfill these tasks as soon as I received them. So gradually they started to nominate me for public office as well; first I was admitted to the Komsomol (Youth Communist League), then to the party, and this way I became involved in politics. Therefore life, in a way, has been promoting me, and so finally I reached this stand; I’ve already been in executive positions for 15 years.
Presenter: Mr. Vilenskyi, are the pursuit of power and the goals of coming to power the same or different for men and women?
Ihor Vilenskiy: Generally speaking, they are the same, and I certainly wouldn’t dispute the fact that if a person aspires to any kind of self-actualization, they are being urged by an inferiority complex. There can be no doubt about that, because if a person strives for power, wealth, or fame, something must surely be urging them. However, this is just an initial impulse. When a person begins to achieve something, their point of view changes. After all, we are no angels, and it would be wrong to claim that there are people who have no inferiority complex at all. That’s why speaking from the shoulder, saying that this is the only reason, would not be right, because this is simply not true. Another question is that when a person reaches a certain level, they should change, they should acquire some spiritual values. And this very thing, unfortunately, happens all too rarely.
Presenter: Do you want to say that not everyone can cope with power?
Igor Vilenskyi: Moreover, not everyone can cope with himself/herself. The problem lies not in the power, money or glory, which person reaches. The problem is that is he able to change himself/herself, has he/she realized that finally he/she has proved himself/herself and now is the high time to take care about others? The weird instinct appears very often: “I want more. I need more. It’s not enough. Give me more, more! What will happen If I lose it in two minutes”. And exactly this fear drives people to move further and change them into dragons.
Presenter: To your mind who is tempted from our men-politicians and women-politicians and who doesn’t stand the test of power?
Igor Vilenskyi: You know, I think the largest part of our politicians doesn’t stand the test and as we have more men in our parliament, so consequently we can assume these are the men who can’t cope with it.
Presenter: Let’s talk about situation in Kyiv. The city council is more interesting than our Verhovna Rada. Do you agree with me? Here the temptations are greater. Milliards of people sold their land with tender or without it, they distribute land plots, fight for them and so on. You have an opportunity to observe men and women. To your mind who realizes his/her interests more in Kyiv City Council?
Tetiana Melihova: Mister Roman, you have read my thoughts. I agree with you, and I want to tell that one can support or not support it. We are checking all those things. But the way the things are going round in Kyiv City Council remind me the “last day of Pompeii”. It’s a temptation because you can buy land plot and you can…
Presenter: Men – or women?
Presenter: Your answer to this is important for us. What are your observations?
Tetiana Melikhova: You know, you’re making some hints, as if you slightly wish to put women to test. Now I wouldn’t put women to test, because these are two very different approaches. It depends rather on the peculiarities of a person’s nature, because while one person considers stopping this and has some sense of shame, others only think of solving these questions immediately. Poor people don’t make decisions to grab 30 or 53 hectares of land, do they? And we say – come on, make your decisions transparently at least, by holding an auction – after all, those aren’t poor people. And they don’t do this! So that’s not a question of being female or male.
Presenter: So, one way or the other, all women have agreed on this, right? Because there is no gender division. But then there is another issue. Some results of sociological research point out that despite the equality we have just observed, the society doesn’t seem to be ready, for instance, to accept a female political leader. Notably, a well-known political analyst Mykhailo Pohrebynskyi gave this interesting answer to the question whether a woman can be a political leader in our country:
Voice-over: Sociologists claim that the Ukrainians are not ready to accept a woman as their President. The political analyst Mykhailo Pohrebynskyi comments on this: “Hopefully, this is just political fantasy. If there were a party of blondes, they should have a man for their leader. It would be easier for them to unite around a man”.
Presenter: If in our country both men and women seize power and steal on equal terms, as they say, why isn’t society ready to have a female leader? At least in this case Mykhailo Pohrebynskyi is only voicing the sociological data. How could you explain this?
Tetyana Melikhova: I would like to say one thing. People may not trust women in everything, because they have got used to the fact that woman can and should spend more time with her family. But I would like to say that there is a difference between the two women. We have a striking example – our bloc leader Yuliya Tymoshenko, who works mostly with men, we see faction in Parliament, we see faction in different regions and…
Presenter: Yes, but Mr. Pohrebynskyi probably means your bloc leader.
Tetyana Melikhova: No, people do not take her as a woman, they take her as a strong leader.
Presenters: They do! I am sorry for interrupting you! And we would like to attract you as well. German people are ready to be led by Merkel (woman), but the Ukrainians are not ready for this, according to Mykhaylo Pohrebynskyi.
Ihor Vilenskyi: I agree, that we are not ready and share this point of view. And I can explain why.
Presenter: These are old stereotypes: woman, kitchen, children…
Ihor Vilenskyi: That is not the point. The thing is that to some purpose we perceive woman as a weak creature. As to her will, she is weaker than the man. That is why she cries, that is why such things are characteristic of her. That is all true. But another matter is that we have quite different politics right now. Today it is not necessary for a woman to go ahead of all… or to gallop on a racehorse in advance of, for example, a cavalry squadron with a drawn sword, as it was in ancient times, when a military leader really was a leader. That is why it is not necessary nowadays. But the former stereotypes remained relevant, especially for men. There is also another moment, why they don’t want to see women in politics. Somehow in our country it turned out that a man gets good education much easier, that a man is more aimed at some social activities. A woman devotes herself to children; the most part of her life is spent on upbringing of her kids. In our country men are rarely engaged in that activity. Unlike a number of civilized countries, where women have an opportunity to get education and they are not bound hand and foot. Here it is a quite rare phenomenon. And since it is so uncommon, people cannot get used to it so quickly.
Presenter: Can you comment the following, please… A well-known political scientist Andrii Oskara, and we’ve discussed this repeatedly in the studio, once said that Ukraine, Ukrainian political circles are feminine in their essence. Which means the question goes not “who is with us”, but “with whom are we” – with Moscow or Washington etc. And on the whole, a historian said that it is a consequence of a protracted colonization, which made men-politicians dependent players. Do you agree with that?
Ihor Vilenskyi: Yes, I agree!
Presenter: And when is it over? How does it come to the end? Can women-politicians change it somehow?
Igor Vilenskyj: It seems to me that it can be changed by male-politicians as well as by female-politicians. Being a good politician is the most important thing. (is of higher importance) But the problem is that I am not witnessing the active actions which could bring changes to this sphere.
Presenter 2: And You, Mrs. Tetiana?
Presenter 1: I would like to add this question. Why haven’t our female politicians changed anything during the last 16 years?
Tetiana Melihova: Let’s think over! What is our objective point – to join Europe? We try to do this, don’t we?
Presenter 1: I don’t know, I’m not going to cite Mr. Volkov – his explanations concerning the directions followed by Ukraine (which he made recently).
Tetiana Melihova: Everybody has his own direction, am I right? We have bright examples: Margaret Thatcher, Condoleeza Rice.
Presenter 1: These examples are not ours but theirs
Tetiana Melihova: I don’t agree with you, we are a part of the world, we can’t be aside anymore, that’s why these are ours examples.
Presenter 1: But we can.
Tetiana Melihova: Consider Finland for example! To my mind, it’s the time for Ukraine to trust our women more, to have faith in them, for example, the leader of our faction has a strong character, she can solve our problems, so we can solve many problems of Ukraine, change living standarts of our nation.
Presenter 1: The word “can” sounds a bit “theoretical”, but the practice shows that since 1991 on the 8th of March our male politicians say quite irrelevant things, like the woman is kind, she can do much good for Ukraine, create the atmosphere of mutual understanding, coziness, so that Ukraine can develop in a proper (quiet, peaceful) way. Sometimes we have more female politicians, sometimes less, but it makes no difference! We do have female politicians and nothing changes, the men say the same “irrelevant” words on the 8th of March, at least those who can, it happens mostly at work teams. But nothing changes!
The Presenter (f): Don’t be offended, Roman only tries to instigate you…
The Presenter (m): Well, I’m only saying that quantity hasn’t been transformed into quality. Why is it so to your mind?
Tetiana Melikhova: This year’s spring must change the situation dramatically. And more women should probably come into politics in order to make our life better, in order to bring the family comfort we are all dreaming of into the life of the whole Ukraine.
The Presenter (f): Now, I’ve got another question to our psychologist. Mr. Vilenskyi, it is evident that Ukrainian women-politicians are proclaiming their femininity. They carefully look after their style, clothes, and they proclaim not only their femininity but also their sexiness, don’t they? If we compare them, for example, with Angela Merkel, we’ll see a great difference. Do you think the reason is that our women go into politics exactly because of their unrealized femininity?
Ihor Vilenskyi: No, I think it is the result of the work of their image-makers.
The Presenter (m): Then why do these image-makers create so to say sex-bombs from our women-politicians? They are just more expensive sex-bombs, with more expensive bijouterie, clothes, tailors and other glamorous stuff. It is obvious that European women-politicians are absolutely unisex and asexual.
Ihor Vilenskyi: Well, I can only express my assumption. I do not know that for sure but I assume that in our country women envy more successful women, so the work of image-makers is directed at usual women’s envy with the aim to gather as many votes of women as possible. I just suppose this because I don’t see any other obvious reasons. Why so? In Western countries another type of culture exists which is different from ours. I don’t think it’s better in anyway! It is simply different. The people there are used to see women holding the same positions as men.
Presenter (f): Well we are assuming that in the Western societies a unisexual woman proclaims her ideas and beliefs, but in our society a woman’s mission is to please and be loved.
Ihor Vilenskyi: That’s right! But in our society men do the same thing. I would say that the mission of our men is almost the same. It reflects the American ideas of the 60s. It was a wide spread way to present their presidents back then.
Presenter (f): Such ideas are more acceptable for women than for men.
Presenter (m): So you eagerly accept that! Since I don’t agree with you I would like to address miss Tetiana with the following: I observe some kind of competition between the women who are working in town council, with the mayor, or in the Parliament, while they are giving interviews and videointerviews and are trying to demonstrate their success by showing off indecently expensive suits. They boast of their cars, their salaries saying: I’m going to park my Lexus over here and be right back with you for a little talk. How would you explain all these? Maybe it’s because everybody is indecently rich in Kyiv anyway?
Tetiana Melihova: Well, Roman I must say that I consider every question you ask being addressed personally to me.
Presenter (m): Why so? They are general questions!
Tetiana Melihova: I’m going to answer about myself anyway. I understand what you are talking about but it also implies some characteristic features. There is hardly anybody for whom we want to go and show off on the television or giving the interviews and talking about ourselves and our lives one more time. There are different politicians and different people. If you are implying the people working directly with the serving mayor it’s a peculiar case. It is quite an exceptional case when people tell about 200 pairs of shoes they have or about champagne they drink in Paris for 800$ for one bottle while others laugh at them. I don’t understand such things. In my opinion such people will not hold their office for a long time. If you come to power to do something for your people you must be down-to-earth and realistic. You should deeply feel the problems of people, not only read about them on paper. There exists a great difference between billionaires and ordinary people that are unable to pay at raised rates (3.43). These rates are prescribed by those who have no understanding of how poor people are. I think such politicians will not hold their office for a long time. I advice them to go in business.
Presenter: There was an action today in Vinnitsa against the nakedness of the woman on the poster. Let us hear the point of view of the organizer oа this action Natalya Kozlova.
Natalya Kozlova: The woman advertising air-conditioner looks very sexy. Next to her is Yulia Tymoshenko – rather serious woman-politician. This example gives us an answer to a question why we have few women-politicians.
Presenter: Women discredit themselves baring their bodies. Nakedness of woman’s body reduces her opportunities to enter political field.
Ihor Vilenskyi: Absolutely! It is unnecessary to set an extra stress on the femininity. The way image-makers work nowadays is wrong. Moreover, love has never been caused by envy. That is way it is all wrong. One should not discredit a woman by constantly showing her naked body. If both woman and man are equal they should be both respected. Woman should take the same responsibility that man takes in the society. Unfortunately, it does not always so. Otherwise woman can simply be a mother, but it is also unnecessary to bare her once again.
Presenter: But I would rather put this question in another words. And again you like to mention your leader*. So and I remember the “Playboy” photo session there, yeah?
How could you explain this? It absolutely contradicts Mr. Ihor’s words, we have just heard. It contradicts the idea of this exhibition! Well, serious politician, unisex, should declare the aim, ideology, complete absence of eroticism and all the similar matters. And now… there are as many jokes about the “Playboy”, as about the tariffs, yes? How could you explain that?
Tetyana Melikhova: I’d like to say that if all were dressed such strictly as Yulia Volodymyrivna is – she always wears neat suits and has beautiful hair dress, then all women would move forward and serve as an example in everything. But that’s really my own vision – if you are lady politician then you are to be strictly dressed…
Presenter: Personally you, would you agree to erotic photo session for your ideology, bloc, or your party being promoted?
Tetyana Melikhova: Every woman should have zest and secrets. Then every woman should realize herself in her own way. And it’s great when the lady-politician, clever politician, leader is capable to preserve her personality as a woman.
Presenter: but it concerns you! Imagine: I offer you the contract for the photo session in the “Playboy”. Would you accept my proposal for the sake of your fraction promotion?
Tetyana Melikhova: I can only say – I don’t have such a good figure. If I had nice figure, posture, then I would think about this otherwise. And now I’m not able to answer your question.
Presenter: Thank you! These were the psychologist Igor Vilenskyi and the Kyiv City Council Deputy from the BYuT Tetiana Melihova. Thank you for your coming. Sorry for such critical questions.
Tetiana Melihova: If I may, I would nevertheless like to congratulate women with the coming 8th of March and I would like to say, that even if it’s hard for women, but, may be, our power is in the conjunction of feminine and masculine! I congratulate you with spring! Spring will really gain a victory! I wish you happiness, wealth and justice. We from our side would try to do everything to improve your level of living.
Igor Vilenskyi: More love! As more as possible!
Tetiana Melihova: Love! Love!
Presenters: But don’t look for it in politics.
So, we should join to these congratulations? Following the tradition which was established in 1910, men remember, that on the 8th of March you should present not flowers, but to hand in projectiles and charges, because women has man the barricades. Well, it looks like we have military finished our program, but we would continue our talk after news. Wait for us in the continuation of the “Novyi Chas” program.